33. Am I Going to Hell? Romans 1 Analyzed by AI

[00:00:00] I'm not attracted to men and I'm so afraid I'll go to hell.

[00:00:20] I discovered this question in a Spotify comment on the episode titled,

[00:00:27] I Believe You, I Have Your Back.

[00:00:30] I'll refer to the writer as M.V., her initials.

[00:00:34] M.V. wrote,

[00:00:36] I love this podcast.

[00:00:38] As someone who loves Jesus and the Lord with my whole heart,

[00:00:41] but is desperately afraid that I am not attracted to men,

[00:00:45] I would love an honest, unbiased opinion on Romans

[00:00:48] where it says that men left the natural use of the woman,

[00:00:52] men committing with men, what is shameful.

[00:00:54] And if it is talking about homosexuality, please say so.

[00:00:58] I am so afraid to go to hell.

[00:01:01] That was from M.V.

[00:01:03] I'm not attracted to men.

[00:01:05] I would love an honest, unbiased opinion on Romans.

[00:01:08] I'm so afraid of going to hell.

[00:01:10] I felt I had to respond.

[00:01:13] So I stopped working on whatever I was working on

[00:01:17] and I looked up a half dozen Bible commentators

[00:01:21] and crafted an explanation of the two verses M.V. mentioned,

[00:01:26] Romans 1, 26 and 27.

[00:01:30] Then on Spotify, I wrote M.V., dear M.V.,

[00:01:35] first let me say a few things.

[00:01:38] Scripture tells us that God created diversity

[00:01:41] and loves the entire rainbow.

[00:01:45] M.V., I believe God intentionally, deliberately

[00:01:49] and joyfully created you exactly as you are.

[00:01:54] Scripture tells us that God carefully

[00:01:56] knit you together in your mother's womb.

[00:02:00] Scripture tells us that God created you

[00:02:02] as you are for a reason and a purpose.

[00:02:06] Focus on finding God's purpose for your life.

[00:02:10] Remember, God loves you just the way you are.

[00:02:15] Then I discovered that Spotify comments

[00:02:19] are limited to 500 characters.

[00:02:22] Not 500 words, 500 characters,

[00:02:25] even for the podcast owner.

[00:02:28] I thought maybe the Holy Spirit is calling me

[00:02:31] to do an episode on Romans 1, 26 and 27.

[00:02:36] Although that is not what I had planned to do this week.

[00:02:40] I have avoided these verses.

[00:02:43] The passage is so complex.

[00:02:45] It is part of a letter that Paul wrote to the Romans

[00:02:49] who lived in a city full of many abusive sexual practices

[00:02:55] involving slaves and children.

[00:02:58] As I was contemplating what to do,

[00:03:01] my son-in-law arrived excited about a new experimental program

[00:03:06] from Google Wabs that he claimed

[00:03:10] could create a natural sounding podcast.

[00:03:15] Somewhere in the back of my mind,

[00:03:17] I knew this was coming, the day when I would be replaced by AI.

[00:03:22] But I did not expect it so soon.

[00:03:26] No time like the present.

[00:03:29] I took the six quotes that I had selected

[00:03:31] from my research that I had wanted to send to MV

[00:03:35] but Spotify wouldn't let me,

[00:03:38] along with her original question

[00:03:40] and I gave it to Google Notebook L.M.

[00:03:44] In a moment, I'm going to play for you the podcast

[00:03:47] that this experimental program created.

[00:03:50] But first to MV's question.

[00:03:53] I'm not attracted to men.

[00:03:55] I would love an honest, unbiased opinion on Romans.

[00:03:58] I'm so afraid of going to hell.

[00:04:00] I don't know if anything can be completely unbiased,

[00:04:05] but I believe these six Bible commentators

[00:04:08] are being honest and that they are correct.

[00:04:13] Here is what the AI Notebook created

[00:04:16] with only two sentences deleted

[00:04:19] and the six original quotes added back in.

[00:04:26] Hey everyone, welcome back for another deep dive.

[00:04:29] This time we're really waiting into the deep end,

[00:04:32] tagging a passage that's caused a lot of debate

[00:04:35] and honestly some real heartache.

[00:04:37] Romans 1.2627.

[00:04:39] Yeah, it's one of those passages that you can't just gloss over.

[00:04:42] You know, you require some careful thought

[00:04:44] trying to bridge the gap between what it meant back then

[00:04:47] and how we understand things today.

[00:04:49] Totally. And this deep dive is specifically for MV,

[00:04:52] a listener who wrote to podcaster Elton

[00:04:54] with a question that really struck a chord with us.

[00:04:57] MV shared her fear about being gay

[00:04:59] and the possibility of going to hell

[00:05:01] and she specifically mentioned Romans 1.2627

[00:05:04] as the root of her worry.

[00:05:06] That's such a common fear, unfortunately.

[00:05:08] So many people wrestling with those same verses.

[00:05:10] Yeah, it's heartbreaking really

[00:05:12] and it's exactly why we wanted to do this deep dive

[00:05:15] to really unpack these verses and see what we can learn.

[00:05:18] Well, I appreciate that.

[00:05:19] It's a question that deserves our full attention

[00:05:21] and it highlights why it's so important

[00:05:24] to approach scripture thoughtfully

[00:05:25] to be open to diverse perspectives

[00:05:28] and to really wrestle with these challenging passages.

[00:05:31] Couldn't agree more.

[00:05:32] Before we get too far, let's actually share the verses in question.

[00:05:35] Romans 1.2627.

[00:05:38] For this reason, God gave them up to degrading passions.

[00:05:41] Their women exchanged natural intercourse for unnatural

[00:05:43] and in the same way also the men giving up

[00:05:46] natural intercourse with women

[00:05:47] were consumed with passion for one another.

[00:05:49] Men committed shameless acts with men

[00:05:51] and received in their own persons the due penalty for their error.

[00:05:55] Intense stuff.

[00:05:57] Understatement.

[00:05:58] And sadly, those words have been used to condemn

[00:06:00] and hurt people, which is never okay.

[00:06:03] Absolutely.

[00:06:04] Even Elton pointed out that this passage is often

[00:06:06] misinterpreted particularly when it's used against gay women.

[00:06:10] So where do we even begin to unpack this?

[00:06:12] It seems like understanding the historical

[00:06:14] and cultural background of Paul's letter to the Romans

[00:06:17] is crucial here.

[00:06:18] We can't just read these verses in a vacuum, right?

[00:06:20] 100%.

[00:06:21] We can't just lift verses from the Bible,

[00:06:23] plop them into our 21st century world

[00:06:25] and expect them to fully translate

[00:06:27] the world in which they were written matters

[00:06:29] a lot.

[00:06:30] Okay, so paint us a picture here.

[00:06:32] What were some of the cultural norms and practices

[00:06:34] happening at the time that might have influenced Paul's words?

[00:06:37] Alright, so imagine this.

[00:06:39] Temple prostitution was widespread,

[00:06:41] often tied to idol worship.

[00:06:43] And we're not talking about modern ideas of sex work here.

[00:06:45] This was ritualized, often exploitative

[00:06:48] and directly connected to the worship of other gods.

[00:06:52] The very idea of same sex relationships

[00:06:54] as we understand them to a consensual,

[00:06:57] loving, committed well

[00:06:58] didn't really exist in the same way back then.

[00:07:01] It's amazing how much our understanding of love

[00:07:04] and relationships is shaped by the times we live in.

[00:07:07] Absolutely.

[00:07:08] Back then, sexuality was often seen

[00:07:10] through this lens of power.

[00:07:12] One scholar will hear from later, Janet Edmonds.

[00:07:14] She argues that Paul may have been addressing

[00:07:16] the exploitative practices that were deeply embedded

[00:07:19] in Roman society.

[00:07:20] Things like masters taking advantage of slaves,

[00:07:23] citizens exploiting non-citizens.

[00:07:25] It was a different world.

[00:07:26] So it wasn't just about attraction,

[00:07:28] but about power, control, maybe even acts

[00:07:30] that weren't consensual.

[00:07:32] You got it.

[00:07:33] That cultural context adds so much nuance, right?

[00:07:36] It reminds us that simplistic interpretations

[00:07:38] of those verses can be really misleading

[00:07:40] and even harmful.

[00:07:42] Yeah, it'd be like trying to understand

[00:07:43] Shakespeare without knowing anything about Elizabethan England.

[00:07:46] You might get the basic plot,

[00:07:48] but you're missing a lot of the deeper meaning.

[00:07:50] Perfect analogy.

[00:07:51] And speaking of deeper meaning,

[00:07:53] let's hear what various biblical scholars have to say

[00:07:55] about Romans 1.26-27.

[00:07:58] We've gathered insights from six prominent voices in the field,

[00:08:00] each offering a unique way

[00:08:02] to understand this complex passage.

[00:08:04] It's like we've got a panel of experts

[00:08:05] ready to weigh in.

[00:08:06] Let's see where it gets really interesting.

[00:08:08] Okay, who are we hearing from first?

[00:08:09] Let's start with Justin Lee, author of Torn,

[00:08:12] rescuing the Gospel from the Gaze versus Christians debate.

[00:08:16] This is the first of the six quotes

[00:08:19] I gave to this experimental AI program.

[00:08:23] Paul's writings in Romans 1

[00:08:25] are about people who turned away from God

[00:08:27] and engaged in lustful, excessive behaviors.

[00:08:31] This is different from a loving,

[00:08:33] committed, same-sex relationship.

[00:08:35] Lee makes a strong case

[00:08:37] that Paul isn't primarily concerned

[00:08:39] with same-sex attraction in Romans 1.

[00:08:41] He argues Paul's focus is on those

[00:08:43] who turned away from God

[00:08:44] and are engaging in what he calls

[00:08:46] excessive lustful behaviors

[00:08:48] fueled by that rejection of God.

[00:08:50] So it's not about the act itself

[00:08:52] but the heart behind it,

[00:08:53] like turning away from God

[00:08:55] rather than towards someone else in a loving way.

[00:08:57] Exactly. He even talks about how Paul uses

[00:09:00] the Greek word epithemia

[00:09:01] to describe this kind of lust.

[00:09:03] And it's not a healthy desire.

[00:09:04] It's this craving that consumes you,

[00:09:06] pulls you away from God,

[00:09:08] and leads you to do things that cause harm.

[00:09:09] That makes a lot of sense.

[00:09:11] It's getting at the root of the issue,

[00:09:12] the why behind the actions.

[00:09:14] So how does that understanding of lust

[00:09:17] as a symptom of something deeper

[00:09:19] connect back to the historical context

[00:09:21] we were discussing, like the temple prostitution?

[00:09:23] Great question.

[00:09:24] And it's something that another scholar

[00:09:25] will be hearing from Janet Edmonds

[00:09:27] really digs into.

[00:09:28] She sees a direct link

[00:09:30] between that kind of destructive lust

[00:09:32] Lee describes

[00:09:33] and what was considered normal in Paul's time.

[00:09:36] She argues Paul is condemning idolatry

[00:09:38] and the exploitative dehumanizing

[00:09:41] sexual practices

[00:09:42] that were often a part of it,

[00:09:43] things that had nothing to do with love, commitment or respect.

[00:09:46] Which is about as far as you can get

[00:09:47] from a loving consensual relationship

[00:09:49] between two people.

[00:09:50] Exactly.

[00:09:51] This is what Janet Edmonds,

[00:09:53] one of my favorite Bible commentators,

[00:09:56] says in part

[00:09:57] about Romans 1 verses 26 and 27.

[00:10:02] In the surrounding culture

[00:10:03] it was common for men of a higher status

[00:10:06] to take sexual advantage

[00:10:07] of male slaves or male prostitutes.

[00:10:11] The laws at the time in Rome

[00:10:12] allowed a master to demand

[00:10:13] sexual services from any slave

[00:10:15] male or female.

[00:10:17] Paul was not talking about homosexuality

[00:10:20] and didn't have in mind

[00:10:21] specifically prohibiting consensual

[00:10:24] same-sex relationships.

[00:10:26] And that leads us to our next scholar,

[00:10:28] Matthew Vines,

[00:10:29] author of God and the Gay Christian.

[00:10:31] Vines echoes that idea,

[00:10:33] emphasizing that the cultural stuff

[00:10:34] Paul was addressing, especially those things rooted in idolatry

[00:10:37] and power imbalances,

[00:10:39] just don't line up with how we understand

[00:10:41] committed same-sex relationships today.

[00:10:44] And Matthew Vines said

[00:10:46] Paul's references

[00:10:47] to unnatural relations

[00:10:49] in Romans 1 verse 26 to 27

[00:10:51] are often misunderstood.

[00:10:53] He was addressing specific cultural practices of his time,

[00:10:57] not committed, loving

[00:10:58] same-sex relationships as we understand them today.

[00:11:02] So, context is key,

[00:11:04] but it also seems like it's crucial

[00:11:05] to be open to different interpretations,

[00:11:08] especially when we're talking about

[00:11:09] ancient texts being read through a modern lens.

[00:11:11] What other interpretations

[00:11:13] should we be considering?

[00:11:14] You're right, there are a few more voices

[00:11:16] we need to bring into this conversation,

[00:11:17] each one adding another layer to how we understand this passage.

[00:11:20] Next up is Rev. Dr. Mel White,

[00:11:23] author of what the Bible says

[00:11:24] and doesn't say about homosexuality.

[00:11:26] I've heard his name before

[00:11:27] in discussions like this, what's his perspective?

[00:11:30] He's a really interesting voice in this conversation.

[00:11:32] He encourages us

[00:11:33] to really zoom out

[00:11:35] to look at Romans 1.2627

[00:11:38] as part of the bigger picture

[00:11:40] of Romans chapter 1 as a whole.

[00:11:42] Oh, okay.

[00:11:43] So not just zeroing in on those two verses

[00:11:45] in isolation. Exactly.

[00:11:47] He argues that the main point Paul is making

[00:11:49] is about condemning idolatry

[00:11:51] and the out-of-control,

[00:11:54] destructive kind of lust

[00:11:55] that he connects to it.

[00:11:56] Not specifically condemning same-sex relationships

[00:11:58] as we understand them today.

[00:12:00] So it's about looking at the surrounding context

[00:12:02] to understand what Paul is really getting at.

[00:12:04] Yeah, it's about seeing the forest for the trees, you know.

[00:12:07] The Rev. Dr. Mel White says

[00:12:10] Romans 1.2627

[00:12:12] must be read

[00:12:13] in the context of the entire chapter

[00:12:15] which condemns idolatry and excessive lust,

[00:12:18] not loving same-sex relationships.

[00:12:21] Okay, next we have

[00:12:22] Kathy Baldock, author of

[00:12:23] Walking the Bridgeless Canyon.

[00:12:25] She points out something really interesting

[00:12:27] about the language that Paul uses in this passage

[00:12:29] like the words natural and unnatural.

[00:12:32] Okay, what about them?

[00:12:33] Well, she says that back in Paul's time

[00:12:35] those terms usually reflected

[00:12:37] the cultural norms of that time.

[00:12:38] Not some kind of absolute, never-changing truth.

[00:12:41] Which makes sense, right?

[00:12:43] What people considered natural back then

[00:12:45] might seem totally different to us now

[00:12:46] and vice versa. Our understanding of the world,

[00:12:49] gender, sexuality, it's all evolved so much.

[00:12:52] Exactly.

[00:12:53] It's like she's reminding us that language changes

[00:12:55] and so do our interpretations.

[00:12:57] This is from Kathy Baldock's book,

[00:13:00] Walking the Bridgeless Canyon.

[00:13:02] Paul's use of natural

[00:13:04] and unnatural in Romans 1

[00:13:06] reflects the cultural norms of his time.

[00:13:08] Not a universal condemnation

[00:13:10] of same-sex relationships.

[00:13:12] And last but not least,

[00:13:14] we have James Bronson, author of

[00:13:16] Bible, Gender, Sexuality.

[00:13:19] Reframing the church's debate

[00:13:21] on same-sex relationships.

[00:13:23] Okay, what does he have to add to the mix?

[00:13:25] Well, he argues that what Paul's

[00:13:26] getting at in this passage is

[00:13:27] excessive, harmful behavior,

[00:13:29] not loving committed relationships.

[00:13:31] He actually makes a comparison with other parts

[00:13:33] of the Bible that talk about sexuality

[00:13:34] suggesting that the real issue

[00:13:36] is this lack of self-control and chasing

[00:13:38] after pleasure without considering other people or God.

[00:13:41] James Bronson in his book,

[00:13:44] Bible, Gender, Sexuality.

[00:13:46] Reframing the church's debate

[00:13:48] on same-sex relationships

[00:13:50] writes, Romans 1,

[00:13:52] 26 and 27

[00:13:53] addresses behaviors that were seen

[00:13:55] as dishonorable and excessive,

[00:13:57] not the loving committed

[00:13:59] relationships we see today.

[00:14:01] It's fascinating to me how each of these scholars

[00:14:04] brings something unique to the table.

[00:14:06] They're their own way of approaching these verses

[00:14:08] and yet there are these common threads

[00:14:11] that run through all of their interpretations.

[00:14:13] Right, like what?

[00:14:14] Well, they all seem to agree

[00:14:16] that understanding the historical

[00:14:18] and cultural world of that time

[00:14:20] is super important.

[00:14:21] Recognizing the role of a person's

[00:14:23] intent and motivation

[00:14:24] and I think most importantly

[00:14:26] looking beyond just a surface-level reading

[00:14:29] of the text.

[00:14:30] 100% and that's what makes these deep dives

[00:14:32] so valuable. It's not about deciding on one

[00:14:35] right way to interpret these verses

[00:14:37] and dismissing all the others, you know.

[00:14:39] It's about wrestling with these

[00:14:41] really complex questions

[00:14:42] and trying to engage with these sacred texts

[00:14:44] thoughtfully in a way that considers

[00:14:46] all the angles. It's okay to be uncomfortable.

[00:14:49] It's okay to not have all the answers.

[00:14:50] And it's okay to acknowledge that we all bring

[00:14:52] our own stuff to these conversations, right?

[00:14:54] Like our own biases, life experiences

[00:14:56] and preconceived ideas.

[00:14:58] All of that shapes how we approach

[00:15:00] these texts, whether we realize it or not.

[00:15:02] Oh for sure. It makes me think of that quote

[00:15:04] from Anselm of Canterbury,

[00:15:06] faith seeking understanding.

[00:15:08] It's a continual process, not a destination.

[00:15:11] We're always seeking, always questioning

[00:15:12] always growing in our understanding.

[00:15:14] I love that. It's like this journey

[00:15:16] we're all on together and speaking of journeys

[00:15:18] that brings us back to MV

[00:15:20] and the question she asked, the one that

[00:15:22] marked this whole conversation

[00:15:24] she shared her fear of going to hell

[00:15:26] a fear that came directly from her understanding

[00:15:28] of Romans 1.2627.

[00:15:32] So what do we say to MV?

[00:15:33] What do we say to all the people out there

[00:15:35] wrestling with that same fear?

[00:15:37] It's a lot, you know.

[00:15:38] To carry around that kind of fear, that worry about

[00:15:40] eternal damnation, especially when it's connected

[00:15:42] to something so fundamental about who you are.

[00:15:45] It really is. And I hate that those

[00:15:47] verses have been used to make people

[00:15:48] feel that way judged and condemned

[00:15:51] just for being who they are.

[00:15:53] It's so unnecessary.

[00:15:54] And what we've seen today just from these six scholars

[00:15:56] alone is that there isn't just one right way

[00:15:59] to interpret Romans 1.2627

[00:16:01] especially when we're talking about

[00:16:02] sexual orientation and loving

[00:16:04] committed relationships as we understand them today.

[00:16:07] Right, and that's huge.

[00:16:09] Just hearing that there are different

[00:16:11] ways of understanding this passage

[00:16:12] that in itself can be so freeing.

[00:16:15] For MV, and I'm sure

[00:16:17] for a lot of our listeners, what does it

[00:16:19] actually mean to hear that?

[00:16:21] What changes when you realize

[00:16:22] that maybe there's not just one single

[00:16:25] interpretation.

[00:16:26] It means you can breathe. It means your faith journey

[00:16:28] is your own.

[00:16:30] You can ask these questions, wrestle with these

[00:16:32] ancient texts and look for interpretations that

[00:16:34] make sense to you, that resonate with your

[00:16:36] own experience of God's love.

[00:16:38] So it's about doing that work, that faith

[00:16:40] seeking understanding. It's not about

[00:16:42] blindly accepting what you've always been

[00:16:44] told but really digging in

[00:16:46] and wrestling with the deeper meaning.

[00:16:48] Yes. And MV, if you're listening,

[00:16:50] please hear this.

[00:16:51] You are not alone.

[00:16:54] So many people of faith, theologians,

[00:16:56] scholars, everyday believers

[00:16:58] are asking these same questions.

[00:17:01] And there is so many of us who believe

[00:17:02] in a God who affirms and celebrates

[00:17:04] LGBTQ people for who they are.

[00:17:07] It's such an important message

[00:17:09] because if these verses can be

[00:17:11] interpreted in so many different ways

[00:17:13] if even these incredibly knowledgeable scholars

[00:17:15] come to different conclusions

[00:17:16] what makes you think about how much

[00:17:19] our own upbringing, our own biases

[00:17:20] and preconceptions shape how we

[00:17:23] understand these texts, even the ones we

[00:17:24] hold sacred. It's humbling

[00:17:26] for sure. Right. But it also opens up this

[00:17:28] incredible possibility for a more expansive

[00:17:31] compassionate understanding of faith.

[00:17:33] 100%. Well, we're about

[00:17:34] out of time for this deep dive but before we go

[00:17:37] I want to leave everyone with something to think about.

[00:17:39] If we can accept that different

[00:17:41] interpretations are possible, if we

[00:17:43] remember that these words were written

[00:17:44] thousands of years ago in a very specific

[00:17:46] cultural context

[00:17:48] what does that tell us about the nature

[00:17:50] of God's love? Is it limited?

[00:17:53] Conditional. Bound

[00:17:54] by ancient cultural norms

[00:17:56] or could it be something much bigger, more

[00:17:58] expansive, more inclusive than we can even imagine?

[00:18:01] Keep asking those questions.

[00:18:03] That's a great place to leave it.

[00:18:04] Thanks for joining us for this deep dive

[00:18:06] into Romans 1.2627.

[00:18:08] It's been a challenging but

[00:18:10] really important conversation. I hope

[00:18:12] you'll keep thinking about these questions, keep seeking

[00:18:14] and keep deepening your own understanding.

[00:18:16] We'll be back next time with another deep

[00:18:18] dive. Until then, take care.

[00:18:20] Wow.

[00:18:22] I must confess, I was

[00:18:24] in shock for a couple of days

[00:18:26] after handing M.B.'s question

[00:18:28] from Spotify

[00:18:30] along with these six very

[00:18:32] short quotes

[00:18:33] to this new experimental

[00:18:35] program from Google Labs

[00:18:37] and I got all the podcast back.

[00:18:41] I think

[00:18:42] I might still be in shock.

[00:18:43] The program is called

[00:18:46] Notebook LM

[00:18:47] as in language model and it can be

[00:18:50] found at

[00:18:51] notebooklm.google.com

[00:18:53] But before I sign

[00:18:55] off, let's return to

[00:18:57] M.B.'s original question.

[00:19:00] As someone who loves Jesus

[00:19:01] and the Lord with my whole heart

[00:19:03] but is desperately afraid that I am not

[00:19:05] attracted to men, I would love

[00:19:07] an honest, unbiased opinion on

[00:19:09] Romans. I'm so afraid

[00:19:11] of going to hell.

[00:19:13] In these verses,

[00:19:15] Paul is not talking about

[00:19:17] adult consensual relationships

[00:19:19] and he's not talking

[00:19:21] about teenage girls

[00:19:23] exploring their sexuality with each

[00:19:25] other. He's talking

[00:19:27] about abusive relationships

[00:19:29] and non-consensual

[00:19:31] relationships.

[00:19:33] M.B., let me repeat what

[00:19:35] I said earlier. God

[00:19:37] created diversity

[00:19:38] and loves the whole rainbow.

[00:19:41] God created you,

[00:19:42] M.B., just as you are

[00:19:44] and he loves you, M.B.,

[00:19:46] the way you are.

[00:19:48] And God is proud of you, M.B.,

[00:19:51] and so am I.

[00:19:55] There is one last

[00:19:57] thought I would like to leave with you

[00:19:59] and it is foundational

[00:20:01] to understanding Paul's

[00:20:03] New Testament theology.

[00:20:05] This from Galatians

[00:20:06] chapter 3 verses 28 and 29.

[00:20:10] There is neither male

[00:20:11] nor female, for you are all

[00:20:13] one in Christ Jesus.

[00:20:15] There is neither

[00:20:16] male nor female

[00:20:18] for you are all

[00:20:21] one in Christ Jesus.

[00:20:23] So any interpretation

[00:20:24] of these difficult verses

[00:20:26] in Romans must be

[00:20:28] viewed through the lens

[00:20:29] of a God who as Paul

[00:20:32] says does not believe

[00:20:35] there are rigid gender roles.

[00:20:38] There is neither male

[00:20:39] nor female for you are all

[00:20:40] one in Christ Jesus.

[00:20:43] There is neither male nor female

[00:20:45] for you are all one

[00:20:47] in Christ Jesus.

[00:20:49] M.B., be brave,

[00:20:51] stay safe, and God bless

[00:20:53] this is Elton Sherwin.

[00:20:58] If you have enjoyed this episode

[00:21:00] I'd love to have you leave

[00:21:02] a comment or a review

[00:21:05] on whichever

[00:21:06] podcasting service you use.

[00:21:09] If you need to get a hold

[00:21:10] of me privately, you can go

[00:21:12] on the website

[00:21:16] TheBibleAndHomosexuality.com

[00:21:17] and click

[00:21:18] on the contact tab.

[00:21:21] This is Elton Sherwin.