32. I Believe You – I Have Your Back

[00:00:00] [SPEAKER_02]: The words we say to kids after they first come out, you may forget them, but your children will never

[00:00:07] [SPEAKER_02]: ever forget what you say.

[00:00:10] [SPEAKER_02]: So I wish that I had known to say something like, I do, I believe you, Ryan. I love you.

[00:00:19] [SPEAKER_02]: Will have your back.

[00:00:38] [SPEAKER_00]: Building on last week's episode, Linda Robertson recently talked about what she wishes

[00:00:45] [SPEAKER_00]: she had said to her gay son.

[00:00:48] [SPEAKER_02]: The words we say to kids after they first come out, you may forget them, but your children will never

[00:00:56] [SPEAKER_02]: ever forget what you say.

[00:00:59] [SPEAKER_02]: So I wish that I had known to say something like, I do, I believe you, Ryan. I love you.

[00:01:07] [SPEAKER_02]: Will have your back.

[00:01:12] [SPEAKER_00]: I love you.

[00:01:13] [SPEAKER_00]: The following segments are edited from a much longer interview that Linda Robertson did with Dr. Becky Astage

[00:01:22] [SPEAKER_00]: on Dr. Astage's podcast,

[00:01:26] [SPEAKER_00]: Here Breakthroat Blueprint.

[00:01:29] [SPEAKER_00]: It's an emotional episode called, Can I Love God and My Gay Son 2?

[00:01:36] [SPEAKER_00]: I've extracted the couple of minutes where Linda talks about what she wishes

[00:01:43] [SPEAKER_00]: she had said with the benefits of hindsight.

[00:01:47] [SPEAKER_00]: She discusses the first two things that she believes you should say to a family member when they come out.

[00:01:57] [SPEAKER_00]: The first is saying, I believe you or I believe you and I love you.

[00:02:04] [SPEAKER_00]: If you take nothing else from this podcast, remember these three words.

[00:02:11] [SPEAKER_00]: I believe you instead of saying to a gay son or daughter when they come out.

[00:02:17] [SPEAKER_00]: Are you sure? Or you can't be gay?

[00:02:21] [SPEAKER_00]: Or what will God think about that?

[00:02:24] [SPEAKER_00]: Even if those are the first thoughts you have,

[00:02:28] [SPEAKER_00]: the first words you should use are, I believe you.

[00:02:34] [SPEAKER_00]: And the second step is saying we've got your back.

[00:02:39] [SPEAKER_00]: We are on your team.

[00:02:41] [SPEAKER_00]: What can we do to support you?

[00:02:44] [SPEAKER_00]: And then stop and listen.

[00:02:47] [SPEAKER_00]: This strategy may also be appropriate in other situations.

[00:02:52] [SPEAKER_00]: For example, when a son or daughter says, I am being bullied or I am being abused

[00:03:01] [SPEAKER_00]: or I have been raped, you should probably say I believe you and not are you sure?

[00:03:09] [SPEAKER_00]: Let's listen as Linda explains.

[00:03:14] [SPEAKER_02]: I've heard countless stories of how terrified

[00:03:17] [SPEAKER_02]: where people are of telling their evangelical parents about this incredibly

[00:03:22] [SPEAKER_02]: important thing that they've realized about themselves.

[00:03:25] [SPEAKER_02]: And just like Ryan, too often when LGBTQ people realize that they aren't straight,

[00:03:32] [SPEAKER_02]: they immediately have two thoughts.

[00:03:34] [SPEAKER_02]: They're going to hell and they are going to lose their parents.

[00:03:38] [SPEAKER_02]: And what a terrific thing for pre-adolescents, adolescents, older teenagers,

[00:03:44] [SPEAKER_02]: really anyone of any age to face.

[00:03:48] [SPEAKER_02]: Coming out to a parent is literally one of the most vulnerable things a child can do.

[00:03:55] [SPEAKER_02]: They have grown up hearing derogatory and inflammatory things about queer people,

[00:04:00] [SPEAKER_02]: all of their lives, even if they didn't go to church,

[00:04:04] [SPEAKER_02]: because anti-gay language is in the water in our society.

[00:04:08] [SPEAKER_02]: It's on the playground.

[00:04:09] [SPEAKER_02]: It still is.

[00:04:11] [SPEAKER_02]: But especially if they've grown up in church, trust me,

[00:04:15] [SPEAKER_02]: they know what God supposedly thinks about queer people and it terrifies them.

[00:04:21] [SPEAKER_02]: Often the stories they've heard are so distorted

[00:04:25] [SPEAKER_02]: and horrible that they actually deny their own emerging identities.

[00:04:31] [SPEAKER_02]: A few weeks ago, I was talking to a friend who said when he heard how perverted

[00:04:37] [SPEAKER_02]: and twisted that LGBTQ people supposedly are,

[00:04:41] [SPEAKER_02]: he was sure he couldn't be gay because he knew that he would never,

[00:04:47] [SPEAKER_02]: ever want to do anything like what his pastor was describing.

[00:04:52] [SPEAKER_02]: And that is so common for Christian queer people to come out much later

[00:04:58] [SPEAKER_02]: because they try so hard to pray and change and deny and suppress.

[00:05:08] [SPEAKER_02]: I had completely forgotten that my boy had come to me to trust me,

[00:05:14] [SPEAKER_02]: to he had come to reveal an important integral part of himself.

[00:05:21] [SPEAKER_02]: I was completely not aware that I had essentially said back to him,

[00:05:28] [SPEAKER_02]: I don't believe you.

[00:05:30] [SPEAKER_02]: You are not who you think you are.

[00:05:33] [SPEAKER_02]: I know you better than you know yourself.

[00:05:35] [SPEAKER_02]: I don't trust you or what you are telling me.

[00:05:41] [SPEAKER_02]: And tragically, you are not good inside.

[00:05:45] [SPEAKER_02]: Your very being is unacceptable to God.

[00:05:49] [SPEAKER_02]: All of those things are the opposite of what our children need to hear from us.

[00:05:54] [SPEAKER_02]: They're antithetical to secure attachment.

[00:05:57] [SPEAKER_02]: We can't tell our kids all day long that we love them.

[00:06:01] [SPEAKER_02]: And then not believe them and not trust them.

[00:06:06] [SPEAKER_02]: And that we don't see them as deeply good divine creations.

[00:06:11] [SPEAKER_02]: When they get that mixed message,

[00:06:13] [SPEAKER_02]: they really aren't going to hear anything else we say.

[00:06:19] [SPEAKER_02]: Oh, I was so scared.

[00:06:21] [SPEAKER_02]: I wasn't sleeping.

[00:06:23] [SPEAKER_02]: I wasn't keeping food down.

[00:06:25] [SPEAKER_02]: And I just started printing out things online

[00:06:28] [SPEAKER_02]: and getting the books of the people who claimed to no longer be gay.

[00:06:34] [SPEAKER_02]: I know so many queer people whose parents did the same thing.

[00:06:38] [SPEAKER_02]: You do the not so subtle, you think you're being subtle,

[00:06:43] [SPEAKER_02]: but you're basically just every chance you get mentioning God,

[00:06:48] [SPEAKER_02]: mentioning what God wants.

[00:06:50] [SPEAKER_02]: And some of it's overt, some of it's covert,

[00:06:52] [SPEAKER_02]: but our kids pick up every single moment of it.

[00:07:00] [SPEAKER_01]: If you could go back and respond in any other way to Ryan's coming out,

[00:07:05] [SPEAKER_01]: what would you have done or said differently?

[00:07:08] [SPEAKER_02]: I've thought a lot about what would I do differently.

[00:07:11] [SPEAKER_02]: I would love to say if I was given a do-over when Ryan first came out,

[00:07:15] [SPEAKER_02]: then I would just say, oh, thank you for trusting me.

[00:07:19] [SPEAKER_02]: Like, and that I would immediately know that it was wonderful news

[00:07:24] [SPEAKER_02]: and that I could have told them that we were just rejoicing

[00:07:27] [SPEAKER_02]: to learn more about the person that God had created him to be.

[00:07:31] [SPEAKER_02]: But that isn't who we were.

[00:07:34] [SPEAKER_02]: If I could go back, the question for me is like,

[00:07:36] [SPEAKER_02]: what could an evangelical parent say?

[00:07:38] [SPEAKER_02]: Or someone that's really unsure about

[00:07:41] [SPEAKER_02]: and is really wrestling with what the Bible says internally.

[00:07:45] [SPEAKER_02]: And that's the work I do now is provide a safe place

[00:07:49] [SPEAKER_02]: for parents to wrestle away from their kids.

[00:07:52] [SPEAKER_02]: And that's the key is just ask those kind of questions.

[00:07:55] [SPEAKER_02]: Yes, feel all your feelings.

[00:07:57] [SPEAKER_02]: Yes, grieve.

[00:07:58] [SPEAKER_02]: Yes, grapple, wrestle, rage, cry, but do it away from your kids.

[00:08:06] [SPEAKER_02]: Because the words that kids hear, I just, I have a dear friend

[00:08:12] [SPEAKER_02]: she's a lesbian therapist who says that the words we say to kids

[00:08:18] [SPEAKER_02]: after they first come out, you may forget them,

[00:08:20] [SPEAKER_02]: but your children will never, ever forget what you say.

[00:08:26] [SPEAKER_02]: And our psychologist says,

[00:08:28] [SPEAKER_02]: what you throw down that echoes forever.

[00:08:31] [SPEAKER_02]: Those are the words that echo in a kid's mind.

[00:08:34] [SPEAKER_02]: So I wish that I had known to say something like,

[00:08:40] [SPEAKER_02]: Ryan, I love you.

[00:08:42] [SPEAKER_02]: Thank you so much for taking the risk to tell me more about who you are.

[00:08:47] [SPEAKER_02]: You're so brave, my boy.

[00:08:49] [SPEAKER_02]: Like I do, I believe you and I'm so grateful to be your mom.

[00:08:55] [SPEAKER_02]: To be honest, I do feel a little scared,

[00:08:58] [SPEAKER_02]: but please know that you are our priority here.

[00:09:02] [SPEAKER_02]: You are more important than anything else.

[00:09:05] [SPEAKER_02]: You're more important than what people at church think.

[00:09:08] [SPEAKER_02]: If we need to find a new church, we will do that.

[00:09:12] [SPEAKER_02]: You're more important than what other people in our family think.

[00:09:16] [SPEAKER_02]: When you're ready to tell them, we'll have your back.

[00:09:18] [SPEAKER_02]: Thank you for trusting me this and we're in your corner.

[00:09:22] [SPEAKER_02]: We've got your back.

[00:09:23] [SPEAKER_02]: No matter what, we will always have your back.

[00:09:27] [SPEAKER_02]: We'll always be in the corner.

[00:09:29] [SPEAKER_02]: You never have to fear losing us.

[00:09:32] [SPEAKER_02]: Dad and I are determined to have your back, no matter what.

[00:09:39] [SPEAKER_00]: Wow. I believe you.

[00:09:42] [SPEAKER_00]: We have your back.

[00:09:44] [SPEAKER_00]: You are our child and a child of God.

[00:09:48] [SPEAKER_00]: We are on your team.

[00:09:51] [SPEAKER_00]: What can we do to support you?

[00:09:54] [SPEAKER_00]: I've put a link to the original interview and the notes.

[00:09:58] [SPEAKER_00]: If you take nothing else from this podcast, remember these three words.

[00:10:05] [SPEAKER_00]: I believe you.

[00:10:09] [SPEAKER_00]: One more time, what do you say to a son or daughter who comes out to you?

[00:10:14] [SPEAKER_00]: You say, I believe you.

[00:10:16] [SPEAKER_00]: We have your back.

[00:10:18] [SPEAKER_00]: We're on your team.

[00:10:20] [SPEAKER_00]: What can we do to support you?

[00:10:22] [SPEAKER_00]: And I would add what Linda didn't say here but has said elsewhere,

[00:10:27] [SPEAKER_00]: and we would love to meet your gay friends.

[00:10:33] [SPEAKER_00]: If you know someone who might benefit from this podcast, please send it to them.

[00:10:40] [SPEAKER_00]: Stay safe, stay brave, and God bless.

[00:10:44] [SPEAKER_00]: This is Elton Sherwin.